Interview with Anna Lutkajtis: On mysticism, meditation and mental health.
Anna Lutkajtis is a PhD candidate at The University of Sydney. Her research focuses on mysticism, psychedelics, and the relationship between mental health, religion and spirituality. She is the author of The Dark Side of Dharma: Meditation, Madness and Other Maladies on the Contemplative Path.
Anna completed her Master’s degree in Religion Studies and recently published the findings as a book – ‘The Dark Side of Dharma’. Her research looked at the possible undesirable side effects – also known as ‘adverse effects - of meditation and mindfulness. She wanted to know why these effects, which are well-known in spiritual and religious traditions, have been ignored in contemporary secular contexts, such as Western psychology.
While she was completing her Master’s degree, she became interested in psychedelics and their connection to mysticism and healing. By the time she was accepted into the PhD program at The University of Sydney, she knew she wanted to study psilocybin.
For Anna, studying psilocybin is the perfect way to explore the connection between mysticism and healing: “Psilocybin offers a reasonably reliable way of inducing a mystical-type experience and this mystical experience is associated with its potent therapeutic effects.”
Q: Your research focuses on mysticism, the dark night of the soul, and the healing potential of altered states of consciousness. What is the driving force behind your research and what is your ultimate aim?
A: My current research looks at the phenomenology of the psilocybin experience. I am studying the experiences of people who have taken a high dose of psilocybin containing truffles at a wellness retreat in the Netherlands. For this particular project I really want to get an understanding of the subjective experiences of my participants. People who take psilocybin report highly variable experiences but there are some common themes, like heightened emotion, a sense of connection (to self, others and the world) and significant changes to sense of self.
What interests me, is that while the psilocybin experience is often referred to as a ‘mystical experience’, it doesn’t always fit neatly into our current popular understanding of what a mystical experience is. Western psychology measures the mystical experience using scales which are informed mainly by unitive or ‘pure consciousness’ experiences (e.g. ego-dissolution and experiences of ‘oneness’). Participants in my study definitely report significant changes to their sense of self, but they also report visionary and mystical-type content that aligns more closely with animistic or shamanic worldviews (e.g. having a conversation with a mushroom; experiencing oneself turning into an animal) and with other anomalous experiences such as near death experiences (e.g. meeting with deceased loved ones).
The driving force behind my research is to help move the psychedelic research forward by providing one more little piece of the puzzle. Primarily, I hope that my research will help chart the phenomenology of the psilocybin experience and its wide variety of possible manifestations. By gaining a better understanding of people’s psilocybin experiences we might be able to figure out how the mystical experience is related to healing and how we can optimize treatment outcomes for people who take psilocybin to treat illnesses such as depression. Ultimately, I hope that psychedelic research might lead us to a cure for depression and for a variety of other illnesses.
Q: What do you find interesting about the way traditional contemplative and spiritual practices have been integrated into modern Western psychology?
A: I find it interesting that Western psychology has ignored so much of the traditional context. As my friend Daniel Ingram says in reference to meditation: “Attention isn’t Buddhist, but the Buddhists have a lot to say about it.” There is a wealth of information contained in religious and spiritual traditions.
I hope we see more dialogue between researchers and traditional practitioners e.g. Buddhist meditation teachers; Indigenous psychedelic medicine experts.
Q: Your recent pilot study looking at psilocybin-induced mystical experiences in 4 retreat attendees really drew light on the importance of qualitative research within this space. What was your favourite part of conducting this research and why do you think this research is important?
A: My favourite part of conducting this research was connecting with my participants and hearing about their experiences. It is an honour and a privilege to be a custodian of their stories.
Qualitative research is important because it can lead to new hypotheses and the development of theory. This is particularly important in the field of psychedelic studies, which is still relatively young. Qualitative psychedelic research can also help to reveal underlying mechanisms of action and differentiate specific features of specific psychedelic substances - which has important implications for the treatment of various psychiatric disorders.
Q: Do you think it’s possible to explore altered states of consciousness without psychedelics to the same extent we can with psychedelics?
A: While psychedelics can obviously induce a very powerful altered state, there are other techniques that I think would be really exciting to study. One is breath work (e.g. pranayama; Holotropic breathwork). Several participants from my retreat study reported experiencing intense altered states and visionary experiences during a breath work practice that they did the day before their psilocybin dose. The other technique I am really interested in is a form of meditation called trataka or fire kasina (i.e. candle gazing). Fire kasina can induce fascinating visual effects that can also be quite psychedelic. It is an intriguing practice and so far there has been very little formal research done in this area. Find out more about fire kasina here.
Q: Your book ‘The Dark Side of Dharma’ explores why adverse effects of meditation have been ignored in western contemporary secular contexts. What was the most important lesson you learned from writing this book?
A: There’s a lot of debate happening regarding whether meditation can ever be truly ‘secular.’ While this is an interesting issue, I actually think it is more important to consider: 1) why are we meditating? and 2) what outcomes can we reasonably expect from various meditation techniques? For example, are we meditating because we want stress relief or because we want to significantly alter our experience of our self and the world? From a pragmatic perspective, people who start a meditation practice should be fully informed of the possible benefits, risks and results.
Q: What do you think is the biggest challenge in your field of work?
A: On a personal level, one big challenge is keeping on top of the vast amount of psychedelic content that is released daily. The field is moving so quickly and it is impossible to keep up with everything. I have had to develop discernment regarding what is really worth reading/watching/listening to.
More generally, I think there is an ongoing challenge that involves rehabilitating the reputation of mysticism and altered states of consciousness. The terms themselves have suffered from a type of countercultural hangover that is a legacy of the 1960s and 1970s. There is a perception that mysticism is anti-scientific or “woo woo.” However, many people experience altered states and surveys have shown that about half of the US public say they have had a religious or mystical experience. These experiences are more common than we think and they are definitely worthy of scholarly attention.
Q: What book do you think should be on the school curriculum and why?
A: For anyone interested in a critical approach to modern meditation, I always recommend ‘The Making of Buddhist Modernism’ by David L. McMahan. It is truly brilliant and so many of the themes also apply to psychedelics. For those interested specifically in psychedelics, I think Ido Hartogsohn’s ‘American Trip: Set, Setting, and the Psychedelic Experience in the Twentieth Century’ is an absolute must-read.
Q: What is the future for psychedelic research?
A: I hope that psychedelic research will both dramatically transform and grow beyond the field of mental health. I think psychedelic research will shift our thinking regarding the mind-body connection and help us to better understand how factors such as insight, meaning, and belief might influence healing. I am also very excited about research into endogenous DMT and the possible immunological effects of psychedelics. Finally, I would love to see a revival of research into the potential of psychedelics for enhancing creativity and innovation. There was some interesting preliminary work happening in the 1960s but it is still a largely unexplored area.
